Matsy wrote on Sep 21, 2006 1:48 AM:
" I would really like to see someone back up the claim that Emma Goldsman writes how the government should take people's rights away. Go ahead and humour me.
It was her who wrote ignorance is the most violent element of society. It's not like you need to worry about losing your right to be ignorant. We all are ignorant in one way or another & it would again be ignorant for me to deny that, but it's far more respectable in my own eyes for someone to go out there & make a consciencous stand against just being apathetic. I feel like I'm stating the obvious here. "
Matsy wrote on Sep 21, 2006 1:47 AM:
" In response to others, if I felt material posseisions brought me happiness I may be trying to get overtime from a job or something. Guess what though, there are plenty of other things I'd rather be doing with my life and time that are more valuable than fancy cars or stereo systems. I worked to earn the money to purchase my longboard when I bought it & I absolutely love riding it around.
And I'll have you know that every dumpster I've dived, I've left cleaner than when I got there before & I wouldn't steal a fellow persons identity. You're in the same boat and struggle as us all.
peace + love - inihibitions to ones autonomy ;-) "
AA wrote on Aug 18, 2006 1:50 AM:
" Better that the whole world be destroyed and perish utterly than that a free man refrain from an act to which his nature moves him. "
Isaac wrote on Aug 16, 2006 1:12 PM:
" you're calling these people scum bags and low lifes.
you're the one that goes to church on sunday and then you say these things about people.
you lock your garbage so we won't wear or use what you're going to throw away. you justify your hate for them how??? and don't just list to this community, "scumbags" and non "scumbags," a bunch of petty reasons for your hate.
just because someone tries to live their lives without the use of money doesn't mean they are lazy.
these people are not taking an easy way out of this system.
calling them bums or scumbags isn't going to accomplish anything. "
dear Elliot wrote on Aug 4, 2006 4:35 PM:
" I read with humor your claims of your freedoms and rights being violated...ahhh, youth!! The fact that you are able to live of the producers in this country( like your mon and dad, the people who bought the food you pick out of the trash,etc) and obviously enjoy all the freedoms that living in a Democracy have to offer, living in a country without worrying about a knock on the door inthe middle of the night because of your political beliefs( how long do you think you would last in say...Venezuella before being jailed as a dissident???). The fact that you can openly and freely criticise and bite the hand that feeds you while maintaing all your freedoms is a testament to how great this country really is and how intact your freedoms remain..God Bless America...btw, today was payday...I noticed all the taxes they took out of my check..you're welcome. "
elliot the one breathing fire in the picture on front page wrote on Aug 4, 2006 3:57 PM:
" who do you think jesus is going to side with during the apocalypse the people that worship him but are still filled with ignorance and hate or do you you think he will side with the people who are fighting for what is just "
elliot the one breathing fire in the picture on front page wrote on Aug 4, 2006 3:43 PM:
" one other thing for you christians out there doesnt our current government remind you of the roman government capatalist the rich were becoming more rich the poor were becoming more poor. the imperialist struggle for grain resembles the imperialist struggle for oil. when jesus spoke up and used his voice they punished him for conspiracy whish resembles all the people shut out by the patriot act and after the three punic wars (like the world wars) we are in the third there was the rise up of the rebelliion and the roman government collapsed revelations is addressing america its prophecy . "
elliot the one breathing fire in the picture on front page wrote on Aug 4, 2006 3:28 PM:
" this country is turning into an autocracy as the 2 party system slowly merges to eventually leave us with no choice "
Brian Mueller wrote on Aug 4, 2006 12:15 PM:
" I applaud these kids for getting active about environmental issues. However, I hope they don't buy into the fallacy that this group is anarchist. It isn't. "
ohh yeah and elliot - jonathan wrote on Aug 3, 2006 2:25 PM:
" im not speaking for elliot, but i would guess if he wasnt using one of his friends internet he could have gone to the PUBLIC library or one of the coffee/sandwich shops that offer free wireless. maybe he did break into your house and steal your bandwidth, i dont know. but i think its pretty neat how you think everyone who was at the convergence was a lowlife-jobless-scumbag. i talked with a couple kids from minneapolis and ohio that came. they each told their tales of how they had to juggle their work schedules to get time off for the weekend. accept for matthew. he was 16 and came with his brother. but he did mention that he mowed lawns to make enough money to come. "
jonathan part 2 wrote on Aug 3, 2006 2:19 PM:
" as soon as you become okay with people dying because of war, famine, and poverty i feel you accept failure. and capitalists, i.e, stockbrokers, CEOs, franchise owners, anyone who thinks "how can i get more than everyone else" are not socially responsible enough to help others progress. the old widow who gives her only dime is by far cooler than the wealthy men who only give small fractions of their wealth. dont accept anything as okay, there is always ways to improve. thats the statement i want to make. i wonder if Jesus was here this weekend, who he would have hung out with? due to his track record, i really think he prolly would have been playing capture the flag and checking out the REALLY REALLY FREE MARKET. he probably would have even dumpstered a pizza. "
right - jonathan wrote on Aug 3, 2006 2:15 PM:
" i dont deny that im blessed. my parents help me with college. i work two partime jobs. we both help each other out so i can go to school. i think that is super awesome of them, and im doing my best to make their effort worthwhile. i think my whole life has been very blessed. but im not just gonna stop and say "ohhh, im blessed. i should be perfectly happy with everything." that is stupid. progress. that is what i want. capitalism is not all bad. it has a lot of good points. in fact it promotes progress through competition. but people are still starving. and that is unacceptable. "
... wrote on Aug 3, 2006 7:41 AM:
" "Anarchist organizing" is a phrase that has its share of implied contradiction. Infoshop certainly has nothing to do with anarchism. Their main stated mission is to get rid of individuals' economic liberty. It takes a strong government to do this. As you would expect, infoshop ends up advocating a wide and detailed agenda about how government should get more powerful and take more rights away from people. "
Nefarious Zone wrote on Aug 2, 2006 10:21 PM:
" Anarchism (and anarchist-influenced organzing) is actually the most consistent trend among many worldwide protest movements today. Check out www.infoshop.org for news, and also read this article:
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060511112202617
Another pretty accessible essay about anarchism can be found here:
http://www.spunk.org/texts/pubs/freedom/raven/sp000615.txt
"
oh jonathan wrote on Aug 2, 2006 7:22 PM:
" There are narrow-minded people everywhere. I read so many black and white statements on this board. Winona is NOT 'open-minded' or close-minded'. I know people at each end of the spectrum, and many in between. But the problem is, often the most stubborn and narrow-minded people fill up posts like this. They are the ones who want you to understand their point of view. In fact, we are doing the same thing. We both think we are right. Right? "
yawn wrote on Aug 2, 2006 6:56 PM:
" zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "
curious wrote on Aug 2, 2006 6:44 PM:
" Elliot the one who blows fire. how did you get the money to go on the internet? Must have been a free hook-up in somebodys garbage. Or maybe you picked the lock to someones house, something you learned from one of the free classes that was offered last weekend, how to pick a lock. Sad to think that you are this countrys future. "
Dear Jonathan wrote on Aug 2, 2006 3:33 PM:
" I find it hillarious how you point out how capitalism has failed because "it has failed to provide the basic necessities to everyone" nothing could be farther from the truth. You are blessed enough to live in the wealthiest country in the world which allows you free speach, free thinking,the right to choose your leaders...and most importantly( in this case) social mobility that has no equal on the entire planet. I think what your complaint should be is that you arent getting enough handouts. You dont want to put in any effort to recieve benefits...as if they should just magically appear.Every economic system has social problems,in this case it is complacency, laziness and a false sense of entitlement. "
locked dumpsters - jonathan wrote on Aug 2, 2006 3:06 PM:
" i am really enjoying discovering how prejudiced and judgemental our community is. i used to think a college town was fairly open minded. i guess not. running people over who are helping to raise awareness to the ecological irrationality of driving a car every where? thats silly. and thanks for the support whoever said they liked my comment. i think that maybe instead of talking about condemning people we should think about what they believe and what we believe and see whats right and wrong. the minute we stop questioning our own values is the moment we doom ourselves to failure. capitalism has failed on all the levels that all other economic structures have. it has failed to provide the basic necessities to everyone. we need to keep learning. there is no best. thats opinion. better is based on facts. "
Dear: the rich crimethInc country club wrote on Aug 2, 2006 3:02 PM:
" My parents wre divorced as well, they also had financial problems...does that mean I should hate money or capitalism? no...it means I should delal with reality and nopt blame my parents inabilty to get along on economics, I am willing to bet that alot more than $$ had to do with their breakup.Grow up, move on, get a job, funny thing about hard work...the more you do, the luckier you are financially,and the less you do or are willing to do, the less lucky you are financially.Funny how you hate us producers but are more than willing to suck of our proverbial teet for free...try being part of the solution, not the problem crybaby. "
to Ashley wrote on Aug 2, 2006 11:44 AM:
" Why 'fight fire with fire?' People here often stereotype and jumpt to conclusions. You seem to want to point that out. But then you say college kids are passing around STD's all year. Some of them are, but...come on. Anyway, it's not all or nothing. I love biking. I won't join the mass. But I won't run you guys over either. Remember that the people who post here are just a tiny, self-righteous part of the community. Many people like biking and yield for me when I'm in a cross walk. They probably just aren't posting here because this isn't a heated issue for them. "
re:polarization wrote on Aug 2, 2006 10:42 AM:
" Yes, those men were killed by extremeists, by other men whose methods were violence and fundamentalist radicalism. MLK and Gandhi used peaceful, non-confrntational means to achieve their ends an they were NOT anarchists. They worked against the system, but within it. It took longer, was difficult, and ended tragically for them, but both have had far reaching and long lasting effects. The "in your face" display of obscenity and certain illegal behaviors contradicts the civil disobedience of these men. How many of those bikers would have stood for being arrested for their cause and gone peacefully? Possibly more than I am assuming, but I doubt it. Anarchism by its definition is a confrontational ideal when faced with a givernmental authority. I suspect that most of the folks involved are not anarchists, but embrace a more socially conscious ideal of living. "
To Thomas wrote on Aug 2, 2006 7:52 AM:
" Wal-Mart's business is based on providing a fair deal and not overcharging. They never close local businesses (but some local businesses chose to run themselves into the ground by overcharging and providing poor service). The CrimeThinc guys had no right to trespass in Wal-Mart and harass people. If they don't like the place, why don't they just stay away from it? walmartwatch.org is discredited site run by union bosses who are angry that Wal-Mart does not force its workers to join unions. "
the rich crimethInc country club wrote on Aug 2, 2006 4:19 AM:
" Written by To Angry:
"..these kids arrived with credit cards and wallets full of cash.."
First they're scumbag trash that need to get jobs, the next minute it's convienient for you to say they have their parents credit cards? I've been to these types of events, and i didn't have my parents credit cards because they were BANKRUPT and couldn't get one. they had to live on credit to give me and my brothers our necessities, and they worked full time. this system is broken.
most of the time, the ones making these comments are actually rich! Once a buisness man in an expensive suit yelled "Trustafarian" at us protesters. I almost punched him, because it upset me so much. he had no idea my parents split up becuase of fights over money and credit cards. watch your mouths you presupmtuous jerks. "
polarization always happens wrote on Aug 2, 2006 3:51 AM:
" Brian Mueller wrote on July 31, 2006 11:47 PM:
"Activism with thoughtfulness can have long-ranging effects. See Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. as examples. However, the recent ride through Wal-Mart has done nothing but polarize instead of educate."
Martin Luther King JR and Gandhi polaraized TONS of people. in fact, they polaraized people to the point where both were KILLED by people on the other side. do you know how many whites HATED King with a passion? They certainly polarized people, while at the same time trying to educate them and change society. What is different about people riding bikes into Wal-Mart to disrupt their business, which is based around aggregating wealth in fewer hands by closing local businesses, and at the same time raking in profits through child labor and sweatshops. For recent Wal-Mart news: www.walmartwatch.org "
idiot continued wrote on Aug 2, 2006 3:44 AM:
" continuing from my last comment:
....but maybe you were just being a brat and saying things to be shocking? my full heart can only hope this for the sake of your heart and the sake of your children, who have to grow up with someone who appears so callous. "
idiot wrote on Aug 2, 2006 3:31 AM:
" To:
knowing's comment on July 31
maybe you're the brat, sitting in an air-conditioned 2 ton piece of metal, a contraption necessitating unwalkable, compartmentalized towns through the construction of huge streets and parking lots for your vechicle. you're the brat for ever even THINKING you could run over and physically INJURE another human being, because you had to push the brakes for 2 minutes. that makes me very sad, and scared about the degree to which people have become dehumanized and uncaring, concerned only with themselves. you show your cold-heartedness with your comments. you are so evil that you think it could possibly be okay to HURT someone because you had to stop your car for a minute. UNBELIEVABLE!
you know what people would say if you actually did that? they'd think you were an evil person. only an insanely cruel person could intentionally hit someone.
"
Write wrote on Aug 2, 2006 2:28 AM:
" One thing that I've always wondered. People say alternatives to capitalism failed because these (still authoritarian, totalitarian) attempts ended in millions of deaths.
Capitalism is responsible for millions of deaths as well. Doesn't that mean it's failed? Howabout what it's doing to our minds, our bodies, our children, our society, our earth? How long until we mark it down as failed as well?
Anarchists just realize that capitalism has failed with the rest of them. Ahead of their time, probably... "
pizza wrote on Aug 2, 2006 2:14 AM:
" HA-HA digging through the dumpsters for free pizza! A $5 pizza at that!!
Sad....hope you choke on the pizza FREAKS!!
Did you dig through Taco Bells garbage also cause you couldn't afford a dollar taco? Losers!! "
ashley part2 wrote on Aug 1, 2006 11:10 PM:
" Did anyone read the article? Its about a group of people coming together to share. Don't our schools still teach "sharing is caring" or is that beyond us now? Winona is going haywire about a group of people sharing ideas, clothes, food, haircuts, massages, talents, ect, yet all year round you have college kids sharing STDs. Seems odd if you ask me. "
ashley wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:56 PM:
" Alright, as for all of you angry motorists, here is a big shock for you.....Critical Mass happens every month in almost all major cities! Scary, huh? And I am really disappointed in the fact that people are so wrapped up in their day-to-day drag that they would be willing to say in a pubic forum that they would run over a bicyclist to avoid having to stop for an extra 30 seconds. For those of you that don't know, there was a seven year old girl that got killed crossing the road on her bicycle with her family in Rochester, by one of you impatient pigs. And as for traffic violations, you'll find far fewer on bicycles than in cars, after all, its a lot easier to get killed on a bike than in a car. "
To public debate again. wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:53 PM:
" As for 'us' being dumb. I'm not Christian and I didn't 'help out' because I heard nothing of this until after the fact. I saw some people on bikes and would have joined had I not been on my way out of town. So, 'stereotyping' goes both ways. As for the mess the band leaves, making negative comparisons is useless. I did that when I was younger...if my brother did it, I could too. Right? It would be nice if people could clean up after themselves at the band concert. Noone is excusing any irresponible behaviour. "
To: public debate? wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:48 PM:
" I'm not going to say you guys aren't 'smart'. But this is pretty black and white. I'm not going to join your group, but I am sure we could discuss almost any topic. The logic behind your question seems to be that either you're part of Crimethinc, or you are 'normal', or less intelligent. ? Let's debate that. There is the whole world of gray. I don't actually know many 'normal' people. "
elliot the one breathing fire in the picture wrote on Aug 1, 2006 6:55 PM:
" and i would never eat any thing that could make me sick i have never ate maggots i think it disgusting the stuff people throw away sometime is perfectly fine "
elliot the one breathing fire in the picture wrote on Aug 1, 2006 6:52 PM:
" the only way you can make anarchism successful it to apply it into our lives. being friendly. loving sharing you mocking me doesnt hurt me at all because i know one day you will realize why we act the way we do we stand up for justice what is your reason for being so negative twards us you havent even personally spoken to us. so someone write a comment back. "
Elliot the one breathing fire in the picture wrote on Aug 1, 2006 6:51 PM:
" i read a lot of the comments and im disappointed but i laugh at your ignorence. if you actually met me and talked to me you would say to yourself "yeah mabye he is dirty has no money and eats out tthe dumpster for kwik trip food and realizes the time is written on the wrapper so i can go in five min later and get a bag of fresh still hot food and mabye this kid kid looks different and has dream of creating a better world but the kid actully is one of the nicest most positive kids ive ever met . "
Well.... wrote on Aug 1, 2006 5:44 PM:
" When it really comes down to it, you know what matters the most??
(Most) of them are gone.
Lets close this topic now. It's been discussed far enough. "
a valid reason to lock that dumpster wrote on Aug 1, 2006 4:20 PM:
" I seriously CAN tell you why someone would put a lock on a dumpster. After a relaxing day of fishing in Gods country, some people like to put their fish remains in area waste recepticles rather than dispose of them in a proper manner. Have you ever had to live with that stench? It's utterly sickening, I know! "
Stop and Think wrote on Aug 1, 2006 3:36 PM:
" We have College kids in this town who do the same thing and act the same way that these kids do. Yet we allow the College kids to reside here without doing anything about them. I would rather have Crimethinc kids riding through wal-Mart creating a disturbance than a College student standing in front of my house peeing in my bushes! "
Wait a minute, Ervin.... wrote on Aug 1, 2006 3:33 PM:
" You're telling us that KWNO used to GIVE RECORDS AWAY in the '50s?!?... For free?!?... How could we have allowed this kind of filthy/lazy/anti-government/anti-capitalist/tax-dodging behavior to happen?!?... Anarchy! Blasphemy! Chaos! Their paying customers must've been outraged at seeing some scumbag digging thru the used records... Get a job! Let's all pray to God they didn't ride their bikes to the station as well!.............or am I being ridiculously harsh in my ill-informed assessment?... Hmmm.... "
No capitalism??? wrote on Aug 1, 2006 3:26 PM:
" really? so...how exactly is this going to work? evryone is equal, nobody needs to produce profit....yeah...so...if we all skimmed off of the bottom who would we skim from? there would be no producers on the top for us to suckle...This works for these few people, but, in the reality of the real world, if we all chose their methods we would all starve, come on, wake up, this utopian society of stink (yeah, stink, your odors are as offensive to me as profit and producing is to you)is merely a theory and in reality would NEVER work. "
re: crazy wrote on Aug 1, 2006 3:25 PM:
" why do you have to swear? that's the point of a lot of the people on this site, that the swearing was not needed but was used anyway. It shows no respect for anyone, including yourself when all you know are swear words. "
Crazy wrote on Aug 1, 2006 3:20 PM:
" 76 posts over dumpster diving.
WTF is wrong with you "normal" people. "
Lukas wrote on Aug 1, 2006 3:09 PM:
" The Crimethink kids could have been a bit more shy of the media, and you old farts that are all wound up about a 17 year old breathing fire in a dumpster ought' to just shut up and and move on to somthing that really needs debate.
I mean Winona is nice, but you folks whom seem to always know what to say are ALWAYS missing the point. It's not about some kids on bikes in Wal Mart. It's not about dumpster diving, and it's not about free stores.
It's about self empowerment.
Serious issues abound while silly people crunch on about locking dumpsters and kids on Latsch Island. Let's take notice and be empowered to fix our issues first. "
Ervin Wolfram wrote on Aug 1, 2006 1:24 PM:
" locked dumpsters : I liked your comment" taking a shower everyday is unhealthy for your skin and hair". I can remember a song that stated that, from the early 50s. It was called "Life gets tedious don't it?" Funny how things like this can bring back memories. And I always liked that song. They used to play it on KWNO radio. Back then they would give away older records every so often. All you had to do was go down to the station , on center street, and pick out the ones you wanted. "
Public Debate? wrote on Aug 1, 2006 1:15 PM:
" Here's a thought? get 3-4 representatives from CrimethInc and 3-4 of the "normal" crowd and debate on 10-20 wide-ranging topics, I'm guessing the public owuld be shocked to hear how smart and rational these 'punks" really are. Winonan's need to stop stereotyping, stop holding life-long prejudices against certain groups, and start practicing what they preach. I find it interesting how noone has had a comeback to the post about how you are all probably 'Christian' but didn't help them or even talk to them, and now you are posting your biased thoughts for the public to read, showing how dumb you truly are.
Anyone ever see the mess that is left each week after the Municipal Band Concert? its far worse than Windom Park was, I HOPE THEY MAKE THIS A MONTHLY EVENT, but it would be nice if they leave the anarchist thoughts on the backburner. "
upset wrote on Aug 1, 2006 1:05 PM:
" how could you be so dumb to stick up for a bunch of dumpster divers. As far as any buisness throwing their garbage away,imagine if they let you have the garbage. Just picture all of the scum that will be there at the end of the night, after night, after night.Imagine what the insurance would cost! Can you possibly imagine why a company would put a lock on their garbage. THINK ABOUT IT! Do you think the people want their paying custumers to see some scumbag digging thru the garbage. All of the stores in town have bills to pay, DUH! Shut up and listen and try learning for a change. If any of the younger generation would show any kind of respect for things, other than if it meets their own personal needs, the world would be a lot better place to live. "
... wrote on Aug 1, 2006 12:42 PM:
" Anti-authoritarian contradicts anti-capitalism. It makes no sense. Capitalism is nothing more than the freedom of the individual to control their own economic affairs: you can't crush capitalism without the jackboot of authority. "
Jon wrote on Aug 1, 2006 11:49 AM:
" I think many of you might be getting the wrong impression from this 'fluff' article. Crimethinc isn't ONLY about scavenging although that's pretty sensational, it's an anti-authouritarian movement against capitalism and government and in favor of cooperation, direct action, mutual aid, and community autonomy. For more information on it check out their website at www.crimethinc.com or another anarchist site at www.infoshop.org
I think you'll find it makes a lot of sense, maybe more than this landscape of strip malls and Wal-Marts that we're so used to.
Jon "
Big whoop wrote on Aug 1, 2006 11:36 AM:
" Oh wow bikes in Walmart! Stop the earth.
I find it humorous that you all freak out over such a little thing. Oh and by the way, your kids already know those 4 letter words. So quit acting like you did a great job of bringing them up in a vaccuum only to have these 'horrible' kids destroy the fruits of your labors.
"waw waw waw, boo hoo there were bike in Sprawlmart" you whiners make the 'anarchists' look rational. "
No, YOU'RE wrong!... wrote on Aug 1, 2006 11:29 AM:
" No... it's YOU who is wrong!...
No, YOU!
YOU hate America!
No... YOU do!
(hang on, let's keep at this a bit longer... I think we're making progress here)
No! YOU'RE wrong!... "
To Angry wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:24 AM:
" Angry asks: " Did any of you 'Christians' invite them to dinner at your home so they wouldn't have to dumpster dive??" Why do that, when each of these kids arrived with credit cards and wallets full of cash so they could eat anywhere they wanted and pay for it if they decided that picking maggots off trash-pizza isn't that fun anymore.
"
mad wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:23 AM:
" I can't beleive some people are ok with people rummaging through trash, get a job and buy your own stuff so you can have your own trash.
As for these Crimethinc people. Weirdos! Did you know that at their little get together they had a schedule of events inculding... Introduction to Lockpicking - What you need to know about picking locks and A discussion about destroying prisons, and supporting those behind bars until they do so. I am against Crimethinc and what they stand for.
"
to broseph wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:18 AM:
" To Broseph: Wal-Mart does have rights. It is made up of people who are ALL protected under the Constitution. Anarchism is senseless and contradictory. I have read Emma Goldsman. She writes at length at how the government should do more to take people's rights away. The others, Einstein, etc, are not anarchists. Yes, it is amazing to me how much "americans" like these so-called "anarchists" are totally against real freedom. "
quotes from Thomas Jefferson: wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:14 AM:
" ""Our falling into anarchy would decide forever the destinies of
mankind, and seal the political heresy that man is incapable of
self-government." (he considers anarchy a failure). "The voluntary support of laws, formed by persons of their own choice, distinguishes peculiarly the minds capable of self-government. The contrary spirit is anarchy, which of necessity produces despotism." (a statement where he is aware that anarchism leads to bad government) "
To Thomas Jefferson wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:09 AM:
" Thomas Jefferson was not any kind of anarchist. He realized that anarchism was not sustainable in any way (there would always be government), so he put his mind to work on what he thought would be a good idea for government. He did not fight against government, or against the State (the fight of the anarchist). He just fought for different kind of government, a different kind of State. "
To Thomas Jefferson wrote on Aug 1, 2006 10:06 AM:
" It is true that "CAPITALISM IS BEST. NOTHING COULD BE BETTER", as every alternative that has been tried so far has been much, much worse. In fact, they have all failed spectacularly. Capitalism provides the most prosperity to most people and involves the least oppression and injustice. That makes it pretty good, especially compared to socialism and other alternatives which get tried. So, let's stick with the good ideas for now. "
hungry cats wrote on Aug 1, 2006 9:34 AM:
" awesome!
im very happy the daily news covered this.
this is the bizarro nascar.
and,
bikes in wal-mart!?
what next...
talking dogs?
p.s.
all ya haters are boring me.
"
re: Melissa wrote on Aug 1, 2006 6:58 AM:
" "Let me first say that i don't believe in reusing menstral pads..."
I would have to agree with ya there.. how disgusting,why would someone even think of such a thing to reuse...Nasty scum bags. "
Minneiska wrote on Aug 1, 2006 6:54 AM:
" Yesterday Monday a small group of skinny kids visited my shop. Not having read the newspaper I did not know they were Crimethinc kids. They stayed about an hour. They were polite, asked a lot of questions about my work, laughed at my woodworking stories. They were a enjoy to have. They gave me their names and home states and went on their way. Its funny, but had I read the paper in the morning instead of last night I would have locked my doors and hid! "
Your Neighborhood Preacher wrote on Aug 1, 2006 2:57 AM:
" (Hahahaha...) We should lynch the dirty 'brats'! Abominations! Sinners! They use garbage! I disagree with their political philosophy! CAPITALISM IS BEST. NOTHING COULD BE BETTER. (you're reading this, right NSA? I'm a good guy!!!) NOTHING COULD BE BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW. I FEAR CHANGE. I FEAR ALIENATION.
For GOD's sake do not visit
www.infoshop.org
OR
www.crimethinc.com
OR
www.indymedia.org
GOD IS WATCHING. Or the NSA. Same deal, really.
"
Brian Mueller wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:47 PM:
" Activism with thoughtfulness can have long-ranging effects. See Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. as examples. However, the recent ride through Wal-Mart has done nothing but polarize instead of educate. It was a knee-jerk reaction. What was actually done was offensive rather than revolutionary. It is a fine but very important distiction. Many of the ideas espoused by this group (recycling, living within frugal means, environmental preservation) I see as noble. It is the more anarchic and thoughtless ideals that make this a nuisance rather than a movement. "
Stars Upon Thars wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:57 PM:
" Now, the Star-Bell Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-Belly Sneetches had none upon thars.
Those stars weren’t so big. They were really so small
You might think such a thing wouldn’t matter at all.
But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches
Would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.”
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort
“We’ll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!”
And, whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
They’d hike right on past them without even talking.
...They kept them away. Never let them come near.
And that’s how they treated them year after year. "
broseph part 3 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:39 PM:
" i was in wal mart. no one was run down or hurt or even close to that, minus one guy, who was then talked with and everyone apologized.
as for the identity theft remark, .. so could anyone else! it's not that hard. in reality, it has been shown that identity theft is more likely to happen when an office worker gets information and sells it. it's very, very rarely some anarchist in a dumpster.
i encourage all of you to check into the writings of emma goldman and other anarchists before dismissing anarchism. ignorance is dangerous, no exceptions. your ignorant judgements of anarchism and these people are harmful and go against those values i'm sure you say you love so much. so please, start practicing what you preach. "
broseph part 2 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:36 PM:
" 5) dumpstered food is not unhealthy. it does not put people in clinics. people lock their dumpsters because they are afraid of people eating for free. and these people are not lazy. just try it and see how much work goes into it.
5) thomas jefferson was, in fact, an anarchist.
6) i'm sure you'd all like to ignorantly write these people off as dirty hippies. but in reality, they were all, cirucmstances given, clean and healthy. some of the cleanest, healthiest, well-rounded people i've ever met.
"
Even more angry person wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:35 PM:
" These punks didn't exactly treat Winona kindly either so enough about Winonan's exposing their angry side. As far as I can tell these kids trespassed in Wal-Mart, pilfered through peoples garbage(perfect example of why you need to shred all personal information before disposing of it), disobeyed traffic laws, and littered in Windom Park. I think they were treated a little too well by the police myself. "
broseph wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:34 PM:
" 1) wal mart doesn't have rights.
2) if you want to talk about anarchism, please read about it first. it's not some nihilist youth movement. look up thoreau, emma goldman, albert einstein, etc.etc.etc. all anarchists! and all brilliant thinkers.
3) you can't run over bicyclists just because they are in your car's way. sorry, that's murder. duh.
4) again, it's amazing to me how much "americans" are totally against real freedom. when it comes down to it, it's much more safe and secure to have control. "
To: Thorn wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:11 PM:
" Both good books. I agree with the irony here. In efforts to go to an extreme or oppose anything, we are often even more controlled, at least in thought. And true, even in their own groups, they will trade and people will naturally tend to lead or follow. If someone tries to squash the natural tendencies, then they are not so free either. I don't really have a problem with what they're doing. Just don't want these kids getting all self-righteous with me as I work to pay their welfare. It might be fun and care-free for a while. But they will end up more dependent than they can comprehend. "
Thorn wrote on Jul 31, 2006 8:05 PM:
" TO:MARRIED POST July 31, 2006 2:12 PM - You obviously have no idea what Ayn Rand and her book Atlas Shrugged (or Fountainhead) is about. Do you even know WHERE Ayn Rand is from? The folks in this article have NOTHING to do with Ayn Rands' convictions...and BTW; what these folks are doing is nothing more than exchanging goods and services. Money is just an intermidiate form of value; $ just makes it EASIER to exchange goods and services. The folks in this article end up doing exactly what they are "against"; kinda funny really. "
Destroy the dissenters! wrote on Jul 31, 2006 7:59 PM:
" How dare they do whatever they want while I'm stuck behind this desk, trapped by the lie of Suburbia?? Purge the jovial free-spirits! "
How is this front page worthy? wrote on Jul 31, 2006 7:40 PM:
" Why does the Daily News encourage these losers by not once but twice putting them front page? I was in Wal-Mart when the 20 (more like 120 rode through the front doors. They showed absolutely no respect and came dangerously close to running over senior citizens and toddlers on their "tour". Said toddlers also got to learn a few new four letter words and these peace-lovers shouted obscentities as they "toured" the store. "Peace not Bombs", my foot. There was nothing peaceful about this freak-parade. "
Angry People wrote on Jul 31, 2006 7:30 PM:
" Holy cow, I never realized that a few kids could awaken such anger. Anger bordering on outright hatred.
The longstanding problems in Winona rarely ever result in this amout of blog posts.
No wonder these kids want to rebel, even if foolishly, against a society that has such underlying anger. I bet these kids were exposed to this type of anger long before they became "anarchists."
I don't agree w/ them, but they sure exposed the ugly side of Winona. I bet all of you claim to be 'Christians.' Did any of you 'Christians' invite them to dinner at your home so they wouldn't have to dumpster dive?? "
RE: Fishuts2 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 7:16 PM:
" I'd say you were brilliant, if I thought for a minute that you were being ironic... Sadly, you probably actually believe what you're saying. That you would honestly defend this administration, with all of the information and available facts... that you would simply stick to your party lines and defend Bush with blind allegiance is sickening. 'Loyalty to the Country always - Loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.' "
where? wrote on Jul 31, 2006 6:15 PM:
" If the really really really free market was so free, why didn't it have crack cocaine, prostitutes, free DVD-R copies of Dead Man's Chest, and loads and loads of Lawn Darts available? "
to: to: to: Thomas Jefferson wrote on Jul 31, 2006 6:08 PM:
" I bet Wal-Mart probably had the last laugh. Those kids probably ended up buying stuff there during that visit, or snuck back later to do it. It is like last year's NEA protest effort against Wal-Mart that was revealed to have purchased large quantities of office supplies from Wal-Mart as part of the operation. "
know your birds wrote on Jul 31, 2006 6:02 PM:
" If I see knowing's fowl-mouthed brats, I'll know how to duck out of sight. "
To: To: Thomas Jefferson wrote on Jul 31, 2006 5:58 PM:
" Anarchism as described in Wikipedia and practiced (?) by these kids is illogical and self-contradictory. They are against the people running their own economic lives (capitalism) and are also against the State. Yet, you must have a super-strong State in order to crush freedom. I have yet to meet an Anarchist yet who does not have a lengthy laundry list of things the government should stop people from doing that it is allowing now. The Anarchist movement is nothing but mindless nihilism that vanishes into thin air at the slightest breth of logic and critical thinking. I wouldn't say that dumpster-diving for dinner is a wise use of land, either. Those early graves from death by food poisoning take up lots of space. "
Fishuts2 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 5:06 PM:
" This whole thing looks to me like a mini Democrat convention. i.e. save the earth, free food for those who won't work, protest Walmart, embrace homosexuality as a healthy lifestyle, and those nasty corporations that hand out jobs and such!
I'll bet they don't like that George Bush as well. On a side note, we didn't have to worry about them bathing in the park's fountains! "
pathetic wrote on Jul 31, 2006 4:56 PM:
" precisely the reason i stopped wasting my money on this silly excuse for a newspaper. how can this be news? you are just encouraging the freaks to keep coming back "
Seek to understand before being understood wrote on Jul 31, 2006 4:34 PM:
" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism "
Most Extremes are Intellectaully Bankrupt wrote on Jul 31, 2006 4:33 PM:
" Posted by "Thomas Jefferson..."...."Anarchism itself is intellectually bankrupt." Most extremes are intellectually bankrupt because the goal (or lack of) has been arrived at not thought critical and creative thought, but for a desire to do simply the opposite of what seems to be causing the problem. It's a narrow-minded approach to handling problems. My flowers are turning brown, so I'll flood them. I don't like capitalism, so I'll eat out of people's garbage and go swearing through Wal-Mart. Do you see what I mean? Solutions are completely over-stepped....but I sense that isn't the interest here. It is the opposite of what they preach...their methods for dealing with the world sound self-centered, shallow, narrow-minded, and uncreative. "
"...what these kids did was as pointless as their badly-written web site" wrote on Jul 31, 2006 4:28 PM:
" That's exactly what they said about Jefferson...
"
To 'Thomas Jefferson......" wrote on Jul 31, 2006 4:28 PM:
" Well stated. I agree completely. I had my own moments of anarchy and it felt good for a while. But I was nineteen. I haven't 'conformed' to any type. Rather, I see the 'non-conformists' conforming all the time. Fitting the anarchist, rebel type is more important than individual thought and reason. That is why these groups appear each generation among the youth...it's just another identity to try and and group to associate with....."Anarchism itself is intellectually bankrupt." Most extremes are intellctually bankrupt. "
To: Reality wrote on Jul 31, 2006 4:23 PM:
" "The youth has the responsibility to carry us into the next millennium and these kids are on that track." I think they are headed in some direction but on a long and useless path. Those young people who are right on track are working to improve our world and environment. They are not shrugging responsibility, standing for 'anit-capitalism'. They are finding their ways into useful careers in science, education, organic farming, etc. Digging from dumpsters for food is not going to catch. I won't even bother going into this. These kids aren't cutting edge...they are like every other defiant section of the generation before them. In their attempts to be unconventional, they all think the same.
"
Lori wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:55 PM:
" It's good that people bring to our attention
what a disposable and wasteful society we are are times.
It is just too bad they go about it in this fashion. "
knowing wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:54 PM:
" Now that I know who they are next year I WILL NOT slam on my brakes in order to let them ileagally cross the street. I have the right away and if the police didn't step in and enforce laws than why should I allow a scum bag MY right away? I had to explain to my kids (that are 9 and 11) why these rude, fowl mouthed, dirty, brats were allowed to do what they want when they wanted!! The worst was WATCHING A POLICE OFFICER ALLOW this to happen!! "
To "Gary" wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:38 PM:
" What's wrong w/ hugging a tree?
They are the backbone of the housing and paper industies. (+ others.)
They help turn CO2 in Oxygen.
Maybe we should all give them a hug? "
dumster diving should be sunk! wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:30 PM:
" Problem 1: They eat and/or wear trash
Problem 2: They could potentially steal someone's identity and therefore go on living the life they doth protest.
Problem 3: They eat and/or wear trash
Problem 4: Rooting around in someone's trash bin doesn't save anyone anything. The owners end up cleaning the mess and the clinics get filled with people who are sick from it.
There are second hand stores for this kind of rubbish! "
Thomas Jefferson Wasn't an Anarchist. wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:21 PM:
" He advocated a different kind of government. He did not advocate "no government". Anarchism itself is intellectually bankrupt. The fact is that anarchy is not sustainable system: once you get more than 2 non-related human beings interacting with each other, government ends up being formed. When we look back in the future, we will realize that what these kids did was as pointless as their badly-written web site. That is, if we don't already know this. "
Dumpster Diving Saves Land wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:07 PM:
" What problems do people have with these kids rummaging through their dumpsters? Are they planning to later salvage the things that they threw away? If not, isn't it better that these things go to people who can use them instead of being carted off to a landfill to decay over decades? Americans collectivly produce about 230 million tons of garbage per year (according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency)... wouldn't it be better to let dumpster divers re-use these things instead of taking up more ground with yet another landfill? As for laziness, it takes a lot more physical energy to sort through piles of garbage in 100-degree weather than to sit at a desk all week signing and sorting papers, as many "legitimate" workers do - I should know, as I've done both over the course of my life. "
dumpster diving wrote on Jul 31, 2006 2:46 PM:
" You know, there is LOTS of garbage to pick through at the Miller dump. Perhaps we should send them there and then see how long they'd last! I bet the police would be right on it! "
Married wrote on Jul 31, 2006 2:12 PM:
" You would get along with Ayn Rand and her book Atlas Shrugged. "
Don wrote on Jul 31, 2006 2:10 PM:
" I had to order a new lockable garbage dumpster at my business. It costs me extra to keep out the social rejects. Why not call it what it really is, PURE LAZYNESS! Why wasn't our overpaid police department doing something about it. We called them on several occasions and nothing got done. Pomeroy was more than likely to busy spending his time patting himself on the back, as always. The only crime the police can bust, or should I say will bust is speeding. I don't think any of the social misfits were speeding on the pedal bikes. How many stores do you think the misfits would be able to demoralize before something would be done? How could anybody respect any person, or in this case thing that spends his free time digging thru the garbage. "
Married wrote on Jul 31, 2006 1:53 PM:
" I... I don't know what to do. I'm a normal man. Married man. Kids and all. But now I can't go to work without thinking... what if I didn't have to waste my life doing this?? What if we could support each other instead of competing? What if something better really is possible? I've spent my whole life competing. I don't even know if I believe in God anymore! What the hell is wrong with me?! "
Chris and Serena wrote on Jul 31, 2006 1:08 PM:
" How come a 17 year old girl is this far away from home with her 19 year old boy/manboyfriend? Unless there were circumstances I do not know about, it raises a red flag to me. "
rights wrote on Jul 31, 2006 1:04 PM:
" Their rights end where mine begin! The same holds true for WalMart, city streets, garbage cans and anything else they may have violated. They can do or say whatever they want, but once they cross the line into violating MY rights, people get angry. And they should. Recycle menstral pads all you want, what do I care--but steal them from me--and it becomes my problem. "
john wrote on Jul 31, 2006 12:58 PM:
" I don't blame them for not liking Walmart. I don't go to a Walmart either. But riding bikes through the store yellling??? Grow up!! "
Gary wrote on Jul 31, 2006 12:41 PM:
" Headline should have read: Long hair and fleas invade the area, several trees reportedly hugged. "
Glorifed bums wrote on Jul 31, 2006 12:29 PM:
" So basically these are glorified bums, right? Or are the a bunch of spoiled white kids with rich daddy's, so they decided to "non-conform" by eating banana peels and wearing 3-hand clothes. Either way, you gotta love smelly hippies. I wonder how many of them drifted over from the Latch Island boat house community. "
Thomas Jefferson was an Anarchist wrote on Jul 31, 2006 12:06 PM:
" Modern conservatism has morphed into a black-and-white world of beliefs about human nature... Indifference to principles of liberty and equality set forth in the Constitution is appalling... Dangerous conservatism being led by authoritarian leaders with authoritarian followers. Say what you will about the behavior of a few individual Anarchists in Winona - When you look back at this time in history, you'll need to examine where YOU stood. Right or wrong, at least these kids can say they tried.
I wonder what kind of debates we might have about the politics of Anarchy & it's influence on society if anyone here were to actually do some investigating and offer a few facts. I guess it's easier to just joke about how they don't have jobs and how we should hit them with our cars instead. Well played, Patriots! "
joseph part 4 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:39 AM:
" and as for the mess in the park, i'm sure there was a little mess. i mean, you can't have 100+ people in one area without a mess. but i saw the park. there was no great disaster of a mess. everyone went out of the way to pick up after themselves and clean up. but, wait, i thought you were all for jobs? isn't paying people to clean it creating a need for jobs? you should be HAPPY they dirtied up the park!
haha!!
"
joseph part 3 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:39 AM:
" and as for the "i hope they all grow up and get a job," i hope the opposite. i hope they never have to give in to our consumerism and materialism and capitalism! i hope they forever show everyone how people can live like people, not like workers. how people can live peacefully and productively while not making a profit for people they've never met. i hope they continue to show us all the error of our lives and i hope that you and i take note and realize how we are flawed and take steps to fix our world like they already are. "
joseph part 2 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:38 AM:
" as for the wal mart thing, yes, they rode through wal mart and yelled. if anyone would like to investigate wal mart's practices, you too would, or at least should be, angry at wal mart. wal mart destroys communities, breaks union, community, environmental, and business laws. wal mart exploits workers worldwide. so there are millions of reasons to hate wal mart. i for one am happy people like this are taking a stand against such an awful company! "
joseph wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:38 AM:
" i find it amazing how "proud americans" are so afraid of real things like freedom and compassion, such as has been proven on this comment area.
i was in winona during this event. i saw what went on. and i know you are all far from the truth. these were people doing their part to make their communities, local and worldwide, a better place for everyone. they are showing that using unrenewable resources for fuel is a disasterous act. they are showing how wasteful everyone, including winona, is when it comes to food. they are showing how to use, reuse, and share the resources available. they are showing how to get along peacefully and coexist, even with those who do not agree with them.
"
Melissa wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:28 AM:
" Let me first say that i don't believe in reusing menstral pads, or dumpster diving or eating people's old food, and yes, they should obey the laws of the road if they are going to use it. That out of the way, look at the way this town is refering to this group..calling them filth,dirt and scum...they are people too remember, reguardless of their beliefs. Remember a few months ago when that woman found racist notes in her yard, and everyone was angry that people thought this town was full of racist, hurtful people. Well, look at everyones comments on here, and you wonder where they get that impression? "
Reality wrote on Jul 31, 2006 11:06 AM:
" I think its great that these kids understand what is important in life...the difference between wants and needs. If you can reuse resources to their fullest extent it is better for the environment and society as a whole. The only reason that you all are angry is because you are afraid of what might happen if you will no longer be able to drive your useless SUV's or have more pretty things than your neighbor. The youth has the responsibility to carry us into the next millennium and these kids are on that track. Keep up the good work.
"
Shark 68 wrote on Jul 31, 2006 10:25 AM:
" First: maybe they are upset with Walmart because they don't have jobs to buy everyday
items Walmart carries but don't actually
realize its their own fault because they
are unable to get a job and blame "society".
maybe they are starting a new social class
"middle class homeless"
Second: if the "bike tour" was to raise awareness that bikers have legal use of public
streets why didn't they follow the "rules of the road" but instead broke numerous laws
while on their "tour".
and last but NOT least: when one of them does get hit by a motorist on on of their "law disregarding tours" you know it won't be "their" fault. c-ya, gotta polish my bumper "
Whew!... wrote on Jul 31, 2006 10:22 AM:
" Thank God those dirty dirty scumbags didn't try to steal my white picket fence or subject my child to inappropriate behavior!... I still believe the best place for our children to learn about hate and intolerance is in the home - Right guys!?... Yeah... Well, we can all sleep easier tonight, knowing our garbage cans are unlocked, our Wal-Mart is still thriving, the dominant paradigm has yet to be subverted, racism & sexism & homelessness have all been wiped-out, the economy is booming, and the world is safe again... Now let's quit with the critical thinking & get on with the status quo! That's what this great Nation is founded on, right?... What?... LA LA LA! I can't hear you! "
Park wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:58 AM:
" So they are the ones that left the huge mess in the park, I was wondering where all that trash came from. Now our city workers get to clean up after them. What a sad few days it was in Winona, glad they are gone. "
comment wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:27 AM:
" These people need to grow up, get a job and re-join reality.
"
2 words for them... wrote on Jul 31, 2006 9:15 AM:
" Scum Bags!!! grow up and get jobs would ya.. it makes me sick to think that such people go digging through the dumpsters.through the wal-mart store there and etc. i'm so glad they are not in the city I live in.someone would prolly get ran over/hit!!! "
Walmart trying to play down earlier incident-don't want negative publicity! wrote on Jul 31, 2006 7:25 AM:
" When these "visitors" decided to "tour" Walmart it was grossly under reported. Just ask anyone who was unfortunate enough to be in the store when they came in. There's a huge difference between touring the store and riding their bicycles through it yelling "F--- Walmart!" There were more than the 20 that were reported but Walmart managers wanted to keep it "low key". (I know one of them.)Why weren't any of these people charged? If I had done the same, I'm sure there would have been some reprocussions. Mental evaluation anyone? It's not just the streets that they are disrupting! "
Crimestink wrote on Jul 31, 2006 3:40 AM:
" This is newsworthy? I'd rather hear about when Iowa Blackie, the "King of the Hoboes", appears at the AmTrak Station, every now and again..... "
freedom is free? wrote on Jul 31, 2006 2:17 AM:
" What a sign they had! I know plenty of history books and veterans that would argue that!! Everything we have today someone has paid for! LIFE AND LIMB! "
they had me thinking wrote on Jul 31, 2006 2:15 AM:
" If they were here to stay I was thinking of possibly moving. I had no idea they were here for a short time! I thought what is winona becoming? Its nice to hear they are leaving. I can't tell you how many times I almost hit one of them while driving! They would just shoot out from nowhere! They were digging in our garbage (which is illegal). I'm glad the police were there to help get them out of our yard! "
Thank God they are leaving wrote on Jul 31, 2006 2:09 AM:
" Because of them we had to pad lock our resturants garbage!! They would ride their bikes across road ways not caring if a car was coming. They acted as if they owned this town!! Thank god they are leaving. I hope they all find jobs and realize the reality of life! "
Extremes wrote on Jul 31, 2006 1:33 AM:
" I can understand the point in getting together with a bunch of friends who think society is 'off-track', or who aren't all in favor of capitalism. But it is these sorts of extreme movements (finding dinner in a dumpster) that don't do much good, aside from being fun for a few kids and their friends. Extremes don't attract many people. You could make your message more useful if you could reach people at a more reasonable level. I'd participate myself, since I know things are 'off track'. But I can't see participating in any of these events. Funny how that works. I might be too much of a capitalist pig myself. "
jimmy wrote on Jul 30, 2006 11:54 PM:
" Don't you think it's time the Daily "News" learn that the park on Huff Street is Windom Park not "Windham"? "
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