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Published - Sunday, June 25, 2006
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St. Pius X disagrees with the Vatican over Latin Mass, but that hasn’t stopped the Winona seminary from thriving

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The Rev. Yves le Roux, rector of St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona, is clear about the role of the Society of St. Pius X, of which he is a member.

“We are Roman Catholic,” he said. “We are recognized by Pope Benedict XVI. He is our father, but we are obliged to tell you we do not accept the teachings of Vatican II because it’s not an echo of the traditional church. The Church does not have the ability to teach something new.”
St. Thomas Aquinas is one of six seminaries around the world run by the Society of St. Pius X, a fraternity of priests in disagreement with the Vatican.

On Friday, four of its seminarians were ordained as priests and another made a deacon at an outdoor ceremony on the seminary grounds. About 2,000 people from across the country attended the Mass, celebrated by Bishop Bernard Fellay. Fellay, who lives in Switzerland and is one of the society’s four bishops, was ex-communicated by the Roman Catholic Church in 1988.

Founded in 1969 by the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the society grew out of his disapproval of the Second Vatican Council, the church’s 1962 modernization of its rituals. Their relationship with the Vatican has been marked by disagreement.

When Lefebvre made Fellay and three others bishops without Vatican approval, Pope John Paul II ex-communicated Lefebvre and all the bishops. The same year, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger — now Pope Benedict XVI — said the society had closed itself off in a “fanaticism of the elect,” as reported by Catholic New Service.

There have been attempts at reconciliation between the two sides as late as this year.

As le Roux and the Rev. Joseph Dreher, 41, vice rector at the seminary, explained, much of the disagreement stems from the liturgy. The society uses the pre-Vatican II Mass, celebrated in Latin.

“The liturgy is an expression of our faith,” Dreher said. “By restoring the old Mass, the true Mass, the Tridentine Mass, it expresses the teachings of the Catholic Church. By restoring that we want to restore the beliefs, which over time, with Vatican II especially, they’ve been put out, watered down, taken out of people’s minds.”

Le Roux, 41, from France, said people believe as they pray. The new Mass, he said, puts man before God, while the Latin Mass gives honor to God.

He also disagrees with Vatican II’s teachings on religious liberty and understanding of non-Catholic religions.

“It’s very surprising for us to hear that other religions can have some truth,” le Roux said.

The two listed repercussions of what they see as a drifting Church: Catholics talk less about hell and sin; it’s difficult to find priests to say penance; and priests marry couples who are living together.

“In the modern Church, the priest is just the president of the assembly,” Dreher said.

Paul Robinson, 30, is one of the priests ordained Friday. Like Dreher, he grew up with the Latin Mass. He said if you grow up in that culture, the society is the “biggest thing going.”

“There would be no reason for me to be a priest if I didn’t believe there was right and wrong,” he said. “We’re always looked at as the mean guys because we believe in things.”

As of 2005, the society had 470 priests serving in 60 nations. St. Thomas Aquinas, on Stockton hill just outside Winona, is its only U.S. seminary.

Wearing a black cassock, le Roux joked about being a dinosaur. He said religion is not just about being nice, it’s also about being holy.

“We are not here to save the Church because the Church is divine and does not need to be saved,” he said. “We are sure, one day or another, the Church will come back.”

Joe Orso writes for the La Crosse (Wis.) Tribune.
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LUCKY MARY CHUKWUMA wrote on Sep 9, 2006 5:47 AM:

" THE CELEBRATION OF THE TRIDENTINE MASS IS THE TRUE MASS,THE AUTHENTIC MASS AND THE ONLY MASS WHICH GIVES GLORY TO GOD AND SHALL LAST IN PERPETUITY AS HANDED DOWN BY THE PAST POPES. "

Tonya wrote on Jul 17, 2006 6:58 PM:

" Thank you Mr. Orso for your well-written article on the recent ordinations at St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona. I have a brother who is just completing his Preparatory Year at STAS. Words alone cannot express how proud I am of him. May God Bless Him and all the folks on Stockton Hill... Prayer for the Pope Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Benedicto. Dominus conservet eum, et vivificet eum, et beatum faciat eum in terra, et non tradat eum in animam inimicorum ejus. "

Marcie wrote on Jul 5, 2006 4:31 PM:

" Thanks for a well written article Mr. Orso on the ordinations of SSPX. "

Philip wrote on Jul 4, 2006 2:04 PM:

" I know one of the new ordainees, and his family, and they are all credits to the Catholic Faith. I believe he represents the future of the Catholic Church, and I totally believe in the Traditionalist point of view. May God Bless Him and all the folks at St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona!!! DOMINUS VOBISCUM "

peter wrote on Jul 3, 2006 9:30 PM:

" VATICAN II HAS BEEN A BAD , HELLISH DREAM LET US WAKE UP SOON BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!! "

Blue Springs wrote on Jun 28, 2006 5:29 PM:

" It is not an issue of Vatican II being recognized but being interpreted within the Tradition of the Catholic Church. Remember Archbishop signed all but two of the documents of the sixteen document of Vatican II. The two documents he and several other participants did not sign were because of their ambiguous language that was inserted into the documents that the “Expert layman” would later interpret. "

Blue Springs, USA wrote on Jun 28, 2006 5:26 PM:

" It is not an issue of Vatican II being recognized but being interpreted within the Tradition of the Catholic Church. "

Charlie wrote on Jun 28, 2006 1:19 PM:

" "Catholic jihad" in Winona? Pulleez! If it is, it's a jihad without bombs, without the targetting of innocent life, and without hate. It's a jihad of debates, gregorian chant, and incense. In this "jihad,"--falsely-called--you will find no mobs hysterically setting fire to automobiles. Why? Because Catholicism, even in its so-called "fanatical" manifestations, is a religion of peace, not to mention truth and justice. "

Martha wrote on Jun 28, 2006 9:24 AM:

" Historically, the Church was founded by Christ, who is both God and man. It was founded on Peter as the first pope; therefore, the Catholic church, historically, tracing it's roots back through the popes to Peter, is not a sect. All forms of Christianity which broke off from it main foundation, are sects. In it's human elements, the church does err, but, the Church is also a divine institution.It will endure with its dogmas, sacraments, and hierarchy until the end of time. The Catholic church stands on Scripture AND Tradition. That is why I am a Traditionalist. "

To Orc wrote on Jun 27, 2006 7:55 PM:

" Sure, Catholicism is a sect, but historically it is the oldest. Since we know it has its faults, then by definition every sect to stem from it also has faults... "

Matt Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2006 6:46 PM:

" I wonder why todays Pius x has trouble with Vatican 11. Archbishop Lefebvre voted for all the documents, sixteen in all. "

orc wrote on Jun 27, 2006 3:13 PM:

" Catholicism is just one of many sects of Christianity. Those who don't like the way the Catholic bosses run things are perfectly free to join another church, or even form their own. "

Martha wrote on Jun 27, 2006 8:18 AM:

" I attended a Pius X Mass in Michigan once. The only thing I slightly feared, was that some from the congregation would upbraid me if they should find out that I normally attended the indult. I have heard that some in the Society are a little self-righteous. Fortunately, that did not happen. I love the traditional Faith and its expressions of it in the old Mass. Would that all traditionalists, in charity join forces to make a stand for the Faith of all ages! "

Scott wrote on Jun 26, 2006 8:27 PM:

" Seems to me that the SSPX follows a very reasonable strategy considering the general confusion in religious belief following VV2. Basically they say, "considering the general confusion and ongoing dismantlment of the Catholic Church over the past 40 years, we will continue to keep to the traditions and practise that was in effect for centuries up until 1963." This is not only very reasonable but completely practical. It's basically "go with what you know in times of doubt." How can they be accused of wrong doing by following this strategy? It's for the change-mongers to prove their case, which is continually contradicted by all the statistics and evidence. "

unknown wrote on Jun 26, 2006 6:38 PM:

" Reading these posts...you'd think there was a Catholic jihad in Winona..... "

Angelo wrote on Jun 26, 2006 4:17 PM:

" The failure of the Second Vatican Council (1963-65) to condemn the evils of International Communism is sufficient of itself to cast a dark shadow upon it, especially since this Council was pastoral in nature. One would think that a pastoral council would have had great zeal in condemning an athestic system which had consigned millions to death in eastern Europe. No condemnation was forth coming and a movment among the Conciliar Fathers to condemn Communism was mysteriously surpressed. As Vatican II commenced, the Ordo Templis Orientis, conducted a ceremony to celebrate the opening of the Council. The OTO's occult icon, the "Stele of Revealing," was carried across Germany from Hamburg to Zurich to Stein, where it was borne into the OTO's chapel, with bells ringing, for a Gnostic ritual. What advance knowledge did OTO have of the Council's designs that caused it to celebrate in such a manner? "

Roger wrote on Jun 26, 2006 4:09 PM:

" Obediance is very important in the Catholic Church true, but blind obediance has Never been the teaching! If you claim I follow the Pope and he does bad things, you're not protected as if God didn't give you the faculty of reason and judgemant! The Pope is "another Christ" but by this title he must act like Christ by following the consistant teachings of the Church. He cannont change the mass, the bible, the cathechisms, the sacraments the cannon law, or in short the Catholic Religion to be pleasing to all denominations. St. Paul summed it up best "BUT, THOUGH WE OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN, PREACH A GOSPEL TO YOU BESIDES THAT WHICH WE HAVE PREACHED, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA!"(Gal.1:7-8)" "

michael wrote on Jun 26, 2006 3:55 PM:

" In Cor 13.1 The word is not "love" it is Charity. For you can have love without Charity you can love one and hate another but if you have Charity for one you'll have Charity for all. "

Joanne wrote on Jun 26, 2006 3:48 PM:

" When faithful Catholics say we recognize the Pope it means that we recognize the teachings of every Pope since Peter who teaches the ' Truth ' as handed down by Christ. There have been bad Popes throughout the history of the Church and we must only follow the teachings of those who teach the 'Truth'. "

Jason wrote on Jun 26, 2006 3:23 PM:

" Church history proves that several saints, along with many other faithful Catholics, have correctly resisted bad popes in the past in order to uphold the Faith. Their obedience to God and Church teaching required them to disobey certain men, even the pope. Several popes after their death have been declared heretics and/or anti-popes. Anyone who would deny this doesn't know Church history. "

Jebediah wrote on Jun 26, 2006 2:48 PM:

" I believe in Gary "

Gary wrote on Jun 26, 2006 2:22 PM:

" I believe in science. "

Brandon wrote on Jun 26, 2006 12:51 PM:

" "By your fruits ye shall know them." The fruits of the Society's apostolate are an increased reverence for the one true priesthood of Our Lord Jesus Christ and an increased love and adoration for the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar, the center and summit of Christian life. The radical and protestant-inspired novelties of the Novus Ordo such as "Eucharistic ministers," Communion in the hand, and the implicit denial of the Mass as a propitiatory sacrifice in the new liturgy have all lead to the bad fruits of declining vocations, disbelief in Our Lord's true and substantial presence in the Holy Eucharist, and apostasy. The Church will carry on, not by the efforts of the modernists who have assaulted her liturgy and dogmas and are living on borrowed time, but by those who "pass on what they have received" and are faithful to the traditions of the Church. "

unknown wrote on Jun 26, 2006 12:45 PM:

" I attended a local church service at XYZ church in Winona. The sermon was going great, as the preacher discussed Sins of the Soul and how we should not cast stones. Works for me. All was going well until he said "I walk into other churches and I am amazed at how many stone throwers there are..." Well, he just threw a stone. I will not judge a Vatican I believer over a Vatican II believer or anyone else. Each has deeply embedded faith in God and his book. All religions are manmade, therefore will have faults. Bypass the errors of judgement and see the good in all faiths. They are a social compass. "

Longtime Jesus Fan wrote on Jun 26, 2006 12:16 PM:

" Now more than ever we need the Lord in our lives. Say no to drugs and yes to hugs...from the Lord! "

Cathy wrote on Jun 26, 2006 10:15 AM:

" Be not quick to place judement. These are confusing, dangerous times. Catholics of all "stripes" just love the Church and want the fullness of the true Faith which, in these days, has become blurred in many ways. During the Arian Heresy nearly all the bishops were in heresy.....do you think you would have been smart enough and tough enough to join the small minority who opposed them?? In dealing with these issues and the people involved, remember charity. "Though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge (and might I add, even have "communion" with the pope).......but have not love, I am nothing" 1 Cor 13:1 "

jennifer wrote on Jun 26, 2006 10:12 AM:

" but you see..it is not tradionalists that are picking or choosing...for them they have changed nothing. They are the ones refusing to adapt to the changes that have been made by Rome. "

Ryan wrote on Jun 26, 2006 10:05 AM:

" In November, Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos appeared on Italian television, and in an interview, made the following statement: "We are not facing a heresy. One cannot say in correct, exact, precise terms that there is a schism [here]. There is a schismatic attitude in the consecration of bishops without a pontifical mandate. They are inside the Church; there is only lacking a full, a more perfect — as was said in the meeting with Msgr. Fellay — a fuller communion, because there is communion" According to Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos the Society is in the Church "

Hilary M. Flanery wrote on Jun 26, 2006 9:49 AM:

" WINONA’S WOMB Up the raging Mississip, And at the St. Paul’s source, South, below the ragged cliffs, There is a fiercer force. A force which surges Human blood between her banks each June, Then tears and rents herself for all, She is…Winona’s womb! And like the raging Mississip, Her channels open wide, And birth the men who are the priests, The source of Mother’s pride. And from that raging Mississip, And at that St. Paul’s source, South, below the ragged cliffs, Push priests from land of Norse. Who ride the river, far and wide, For souls from shore to shore, And bring them home to Mother’s side, To leave Her never more. And up where current’s all the rage, And sin is sorrow’s source, Still south, below the ragged cliffs, WINONA STAYS THE COURSE!!! "

Kayla wrote on Jun 25, 2006 9:37 PM:

" The complaints that traditionalists have about the inflitration of the modern culture into the lives of Catholics are legitimate. But few realize that the decline is not an issue of changed doctrine, but a tragic effect of the simultaneous cultural battle and the confusion which resulted from incorrect implimentations of Vatican II changes. I experience that going to the Latin Mass implies no rejection of Vatican II. However, the apparent effects of the Pius X division of the Latin Rite, which denies the authenticity of the apostolic succession, are that members consistetly hold attitudes of self-reliance and superiority, aware of the Lord's Jugment of the world but failing to trust equally in His Mercy and His continued embrace of His poor infected Bride. Dangerously, traditionalists with misconceptions regarding the Church's actual teachings cannot be educated because unfamiliar ideas are presumed and feared to be symptoms of "changed doctrine". "

brian wrote on Jun 25, 2006 9:34 PM:

" As much as i agree with you, it is not for you to decide, but follow. If the church errs, the sin will not be yours. Pray, and plead to make changes, yet remain in obediance to the church. "

Jared wrote on Jun 25, 2006 3:45 PM:

" "We are recognized by Pope Benedict XVI. He is our father, but we are obliged to tell you we do not accept the teachings of Vatican II" Recognized by their disobedience. Either you accept all of what the Church teaches, or none at all. You can't pick and choose, and still claim to be in union with the Holy Father. "


The comments above are from readers. In no way do they represent the views of the Winona Daily News.

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